This thread will be for the creation of an original setting to use for a supers campaign. For those interested, we will be working step by step and build us a world together, hopefully something that everyone will be satisfied with, and excited to play in


How we will go about this is at first I'll ask a couple of questions, the group each gives me an answer and we will all discuss what we do like or don't like, and come to a consensus at the end.

Today 5/31, I'll be messing around in this test campaign https://app.roll20.net/join/415103/7F9pKg

If your signed up on the site, all you have to do is click the link, it will take you to the campaign, where we can talk in person.

Part 1

Setting and tone:

A superhero means different things to different people, and people enjoy different types of heroes in comic books. In a super campaign, it can be a little frustrating when most of the group wants to play a cheezy silver age of comics setting, then one guy comes in with basically a Punisher type character, or vice versa. To avoid such conflict, heres the first questions I am going to ask about heroes in this setting.

Please do not give yes or no answers, explain your reasoning or thoughts on the subject.

1. Do superheroes kill? Do they only incapacitate? Will they just short of kill someone to incapacitate them?

2. Do supervillains kill?

3. How dark of a setting would you like to play in? How far is too far? (try to give examples)

4. Do superheroes wear costumes? Bright colors?

• Do Superheroes Kill?
  

Depends on the Hero. Heroes that are particularly violent may be disliked or distrusted by their peers, or even branded as villains if they harm innocents, but killing doesn't necessarily disqualify you from being a hero.

• Do Supervillains Kill?
  

Almost unanimously, yes. The ones that don't are few and far between. It seems odd to me that the typical Supervillain would feel any hesitation to kill a person. Still, there would be some outliers who have devoted their life to crime without killing.

• How Dark of a Setting Would You Like to Play In?
  

I don't exactly have an opinion on this, but I will say that it's not likely we'll reach the "too far" point with me.

• Do Superheroes Wear Costumes?
  

For the most part, yes, but not all of them wear spandex or bright colors. Still, bright and gaudy costumes aren't considered unusual and are a generally accepted part of superheroing. It seems like some would really feel attracted to the gaudy spandex stereotype look, while others would go for more practical outfits.

Von

some follow up discussion on your answers

1. So you would be comfortable with the heroes in our setting being willing to kill the baddies. I then must ask the follow-up question, what would be the turning point for the hero to decide to kill the baddie instead of having him arrested/restrained. You said also particularly violent heroes would be branded as villains, say a baddie tries to blow up a bus full of nuns, and the hero kills the baddie to stop him, how far would the violence need to be to be too far? Would the media brand him a killer if his opening move was to shoot the man in the head and not try to arrest him first? What situations would it be okay to kill in this setting and what situations would it not?

2. So you say supervillains in this setting we're making should more often then not be willing to kill. So characters like Catwoman, super thieves, or a super hacker who removes money from accounts are outliers and are rare in this setting.

My follow-up question for this how much shades of grey would you like to be in this setting. Do you want it to be black and white, the baddies are bad, and the only motivation they need to have is greed or power? Or would you like shades of grey, example Mister Freeze, his criminal activity are attempts to gain enough funding to stay alive and save his only love and wife, a noble goal, but he has turned to supervillainry to accomplish it and won't let those stand in his path to save his life because she's all that matters to him. Is it a mixture of both, like some villains are there so that your superheroes can have a clean cut victory and have no qualms at taking them out, while others are more complex in their goals and intentions, that it can make the heroes think and wonder if taking them out is the right thing. If so, what is the mixture, would you want them to be more often then not complex, or only a couple complex?

3. You say you don't know yet what is too far for you. Would this situation be too far or too dark for a superhero setting? If so, what part of it is over the edge?

Warning for being ridiculously dark

Spoiler:

1. Do superheroes kill? Do they only incapacitate? Will they just short of kill someone to incapacitate them?

I'd say they should be circumstances where a hero could kill. Maybe with kill orders issued by whatever authority is in charge? Otherwise it's whatever it takes to minimize collateral damage.

2. Do supervillains kill?

I'd say they'd try too, but unless they were attacking just to kill they'd probably be more focused on escaping. Unless they're the crazy ones.

3. How dark of a setting would you like to play in? How far is too far? (try to give examples)

I'd rather avoid things like mutilation and the like.

4. Do superheroes wear costumes? Bright colors?

Most wear something to change/cover their identity. While bright spandex isn't the most popular it's common enough to be see on heroes that can get away with less armored suits(ie people with super durability, magic, or supergenius fabrics).

Erie, The Odd One wrote:

Von

some follow up discussion on your answers

1. So you would be comfortable with the heroes in our setting being willing to kill the baddies. I then must ask the follow-up question, what would be the turning point for the hero to decide to kill the baddie instead of having him arrested/restrained. You said also particularly violent heroes would be branded as villains, say a baddie tries to blow up a bus full of nuns, and the hero kills the baddie to stop him, how far would the violence need to be to be too far? Would the media brand him a killer if his opening move was to shoot the man in the head and not try to arrest him first? What situations would it be okay to kill in this setting and what situations would it not?

Killing super villains is considered kosher in most circumstances, but some of the more Lawful Good Heroes might be uncomfortable around heroes that kill villains routinely. Excessive civilian casualties are where the turning point lies, and if someone regularly lets innocents die or causes their death in the pursuit of murdering the villain; it can be assumed that they're really just in it for the killing and other heroes might turn on them. There'll probably be a good portion of heroes that refuse to associate whatsoever with heroes that kill villains anyways. And the heroes that don't kill are still in the majority.

Erie, The Odd One wrote:

2. So you say supervillains in this setting we're making should more often then not be willing to kill. So characters like Catwoman, super thieves, or a super hacker who removes money from accounts are outliers and are rare in this setting.

Yes, exactly. Though I'd be happy to see a few of them in the story, since they're often quite interesting characters.

Erie, The Odd One wrote:

My follow-up question for this how much shades of grey would you like to be in this setting. Do you want it to be black and white, the baddies are bad, and the only motivation they need to have is greed or power? Or would you like shades of grey, example Mister Freeze, his criminal activity are attempts to gain enough funding to stay alive and save his only love and wife, a noble goal, but he has turned to supervillainry to accomplish it and won't let those stand in his path to save his life because she's all that matters to him. Is it a mixture of both, like some villains are there so that your superheroes can have a clean cut victory and have no qualms at taking them out, while others are more complex in their goals and intentions, that it can make the heroes think and wonder if taking them out is the right thing. If so, what is the mixture, would you want them to be more often then not complex, or only a couple complex?

I'd prefer to see most of them be straightforward "I'm evil" villains, with a few complex one mixed in. It'll have more effect if it's uncommon, basically. And still, I imagine that in most cases if someone wants something enough to turn to super villainry to get it, They'd be ready and willing to kill for it.

Erie, The Odd One wrote:

3. You say you don't know yet what is too far for you. Would this situation be too far or too dark for a superhero setting? If so, what part of it is over the edge?

Warning for being ridiculously dark

Spoiler:

Nothing about that is particularly objectionable to me. It's grotesque, sure, but that enhances the mood and (I would say) quality of the scene. Basically, I'm okay with whatever level of darkness to which we might delve.

Currently am here: https://app.roll20.net/join/415103/7F9pKg so we do not have to do a back and forward thing if you got the time


Anyway.

Von

1. How about more direct question, how do you want our group supers to feel about killing? Some super kill and your saying most don't go in gunsblazing if I'm not mistaken. So basically killing is not the majority of superheroes first option, and that they would rather restrain the baddie if they can, but are will to kill the baddie if they feel that is their only option. I must ask though how much innocent crossfire from a super is too much?

Wootius

1. My talk with you says basically the same thing I think, that for most heroes, killing is not their first option and they will try restraining first or at the very least consider it their first option.

2.

Von and Wootius

From my talks with Wootius, both of you want a mix of black and white and complex villains. You both however want the opposite amounts. Wootius wants mostly complex with a few black and white, and Von wants vice versa. Would either of you be willing to concede a point? Or would you rather meet in the middle?

3.

Another Conflicting point for Wootius and Von

Wootius doesn't want it too, dark, death and killing is fine, but no mutilation and similar

and Von is fine with dark dark dark.

This is a discussion, so you two can freely discuss these topics, nothing is set in stone yet.

1.) On the dot.

2.) I'd be fine with more straight black&white over complex ones. I can roll with the group.

3.) A few rare villains as dark as your example would be fine, I just don't want to read about eating babies and serial rapists game after game.

1. I don't want or expect any of the supers in the party to be big on killing people. I just think it'd be a good thing to add variety to NPC supers. And if someone in the paarty is under enough pressure, they might end up killing a villain and that'd be fine. (Depending on if we have any super-super-lawful-good guys in the party, but then it adds drama and character conflict!
The general summary of Wootius' opinion lines up nicely with mine, I think. And a super isn't going to be branded a villain unless they're clearly and indisputably more interested in killing villains then helping innocents. Crossfire won't be looked upon too harshly, but deliberately smashing the villain's hostages in a mad rush to destroy him is going to look pretty bad.

2. Same as Wootius, I'd be fine with a larger smattering of complex villains if that's the general opinion of the group. There should still be some that are just. "RARRRRR EVIL" though, because those can be a lot of fun from time to time. I maybe should have clarified, though, that even the most black and white evil of villains should have a relatively good reason for being so evil.

3. I'm not asking you to go that dark, just saying I'd be okay with it. If I had to be specific, I'd say that I'd love to see it go that dark with at least one villain, but for the most part I want it to stay at levels everyone else is most comfortable with.

Okay, till Soroya posts her answers to the first 4 questions, I think we have establish the general feel of supers of the setting, lets get one with a couple more questions.

5. What are the acceptable origins for supers? There are 4 main ones, technological (getting powers from some form of technology, either making it themselves or coming across it, they are getting their powers from some sort of device.

examples: Doctor Octopus, Rhino, Iron Man,)

Magic (Either a mage themselves or mystic artifact imbued them with powers, are a magic being or they wield a mystical artifact)

examples: Doctor Strange, Zatanna, Wonder Woman, Helboy)

Or Mutation (Chemicals, just born that way, freak accident of science)

examples: Any X-men, the Flash, Spiderman

And lastly Aliens (Given alien artifact/technology, given powers by aliens, or is an alien

examples: Power Pact, Martian Manhunter, Blue Beetle, Star Lord)


A follow-up question is how common are supers?


6. How do people feel about supers? Hate them, love them, case by case? This question is split up into

General populace (common folk)

Law enforcement

The Media

The government

Each would have a different viewpoint/perspective. Spiderman is the classic case of this, common fold and law enforcement generally love him, but the media and the government are not so crazy about him.

7. I want you guys to put these following campaign settings into a following wat you like the most to what you like the least, and give some pro's and con's to each setting.

General Heroes: These are the heroes by day, the guys who dress-up to save people from fires, natural disasters, stop super-villains from wrecking cities, and maybe even save a couple of kittens. This is the classic hero setting, Some my choose to fight crime by night, but what they are facing are thugs, crooks, robbers, and other night time supervillains after world domination and money. These characters are more or less adults, and any problems they face outside of heroing will be adult problems
Think Superman, Batman, Iron Man, most main stream heroes.

Teen heroes: These are the squires, the trainees, the second tier. They may fight the same types of foes as general heroes, but they have to deal with teenage problems too. Often underestimated, and more often then not weaker, if only due to inexperience, these heroes are the ones that are trying to establish themselves, learn from their peers, and get a date for the junior prom.
Think: Teen Titans, Young Justice, Power Pack

The Supernaturals: These are the heroes that face what bumps in the night, the darkest, the hidden evil, the supernatural threats that threaten the end of days and the mad science monstocities. These guys powers often come from just as dark or twisted sources and the creatures they face, but they rise above it to save people who often would brand them as a monster otherwise.
Think: Hellboy, Doctor Strange, Supernatural

Or can also add a general idea, giving pros and cons to it.

5.) Everything except being alien is easily acceptable. The caveat I have with aliens is we'd have to figure out the world reaction to them. Unless they're human like enough to fit in, but then why be an alien?

6.) General populace: It varies. Some don't like someone being that strong, others are grateful to be able to rely on a hero to save them from the villains when the cops fail. On the whole I'd general positive.

Law enforcement: It's a nightmare for them. On one hand they need them to deal with the villains they can't handle, with the other they have to try and keep the heroes under some kind of order. They rather both just disappeared.

Media: Love them. Interviews and their antics help to fill the 24 hour news slots, while some heroes love their celebrity news swarm every time they're seen. Basically the media love talking about them because that's what the people watch.

Government: Nightmare. You have citizens that outstrip the capabilities of 99% of your responses. You have to rely on supers to regulate supers basically and their goodwill to follow whatever regulation you try to enforce. You appreciate heroes efforts, but being reliant on them to stop villains is grating, especially when a hero goes too far and you have to deal with the media frenzy.

7.) General: Easy to work with, the natural setting. It'd also be the easiest to become bored with I'd think.

Teens: Easy drama tie-ins. Lots of hijinks we could get into during downtime. Less experienced than General though.

Supernaturals: Could be awesome. Like super's version of the Ghostbusters. Limits powerset though. angling more toward magic/supertech?

5.) I've never been fond of heroes that have powers just because they're aliens, but supers that also happen to be aliens are fine by me. Otherwise, I'm okay with anything.
And They shouldn't be terribly rare. Maybe Paranatural level rare, where there's probably 2-3 in a decent sized town.


6.)

• General populace: Definitely case by case, in accordance with the code of conduct I've already talked about. (don't go killing innocents.) The general opinion would be that they're good, though.
  
  
• Law enforcement: They don't like them, but don't bother with them much. They're generally just annoyed by supers.
  
  
• The Media: They're huge suckers for heroes, playing it up at every opportunity. Some heroes probably even have agencies and merchandise, but they'd be the exception, not the rule. Some would probably think of them as sellouts, too.
  
  
• The government: They want supers gone. Less dangerous that way. They're probably responsible for some weaker heroes "Mysteriously Disappearing".

7.)

• General Heroes: Most of my other answers have been based on the assumption that this would be the setting, I might have to mess with them otherwise. A mix between this and supernatural would probably be my top choice.
  
  
• Teen heroes: Fun, but I find I'm not all that good at the teen drama part. I'd not be averse to this, but the other two are my preference.
  
  
• The Supernaturals: Probably my favorite setting in general, but I'm too hyped about general heroes to want to do this exclusively. Supernatural style conflicts in a general heroic setting, though, would be pretty cool.

I have heard twice they would mind a mix of general and supernatural, but I can tell you that's not a good idea. Supernatural is already a mix between the hero and horror genres, and adding more general(or I should call it classic) kinda ruins the horror aspect of the Supernatural, and can cause whiplash moods. I'm going to have to say that idea would have to be a no go on a gming stand point. You may face a demon or ancient evil in the General setting, but that's not going to be as nearly commonplace, there's probably only going to be the one if any and there's not going to be the same level of dread that he/she/it'll be able to provoke.

5. I'm hearing interesting answers about Aliens in our setting. Von, so your saying you want aliens to have made full contact and interrogation in society? Truthfully in my mind, when I was talking about alien origins, Are people like Green Lantern, or Martian Manhunter, with aliens on earth being able to be counted on one hand, and the stuff that does make it to earth and lands in the hands of people giving them powers. No full blown contact, or at least hidden and very very few.

This can add an interesting dynamic, alien contact being fully made.


If we are going to go through with this I must ask the following questions on the idea, same as with supers. How are they perceived by the common person, law enforcement, media, and the government.

It also adds other questions like are they refugees? Or are they some form of immigrants? Is this one race or is it multiple? How long ago were they on earth, and when did they become public, if at all? If there is still an origin alien government to deal with, how is their relations with earth government as a whole?


As for numbers on supers, I'm hearing from Von that they are decently rare, a very small percentage of the populace. That number is general used for when supers cannot be born super, that they have to be made.

While Wootius wants them to still be a small percentage of the populace, but not small enough to be ignored politcal wise, I was given the number of roughly 1/3500, and the number of supers is rising, and that would be a mystery of the setting as to why. With these numbers, supers are more likely capable of just being born with abilities as well as those who are made into supers.

6. So far we have a consensus on how supers are treated

Common people it would be a case by case

Law enforcement don't generally like them, but they are just more disgruntled then anything.

Media eats them up because of how much business they bring

Government is really not fond of them and would rather want them gone.

Oops, I mixed up what you were saying as at first I thought you were talking about aliens being 2 or 3 per town instead of super numbers as I realized half-way through typing.

But the idea still stands, do we want Aliens to be a major part of society and culture, or just regulated to possible hero origins?

Yes, I really like super settings with aliens integrated in society. I'll need some time to think about the specifics of how it'd work, though, it ain't no small thing.

Warning though, the introduction of aliens to the main stream pushes us further from the Supernatural setting. Its still possible, but it does cause some weird dynamics to be addressed

Nah, you had a decent point up there. Trying to mix in supernatural might not work very well. I'm content with keeping it General Supers, so long as everybody else is.

Don't worry as the Supernatural doesn't have to completely go away after we're done sandboxing. The Supernatural team(s) that deal with the deep dark can still be in the background, not in focus, and most likely out in the open, but we can totally use the idea to do a one-off session in the same world using characters that are keeping the deep dark at bay to take a break from the main setting if we need to.

It could totally be an opportunity for someone else to run that session for a night (possibly to give me a break)

Same thing can be said for the other 2 settings, which ever one we don't use can totes be used for a one off session for a break off the main story.

Right now, we're just choosing the main setting.

General setting is fine by me then. Aliens being mainstream acting for supernatural replacement, but even if they're "normal" they're still going to be a bit strange.

I wanted to wait for Soroya to answer the questions, but she told me she would have done so Monday, so I'm going to move on a little here.

It seems we're leaning more for the General/Teen settings. Von, your main problem with the teen setting is that you don't think you do teen drama very well?

Either setting, no one is going to avoid drama, its just going to be a different type of drama, adult drama, mid-life crisis's, crappy jobs, money and rent issues, and carry one issues that never stop since you discovered the opposite gender (or the same gender, or yourself if you reproduce asexually).

Teen drama just really condenses it into a singular setting for all characters with probable more emotional responses due to hormones.

I also like to note that the Paranatural Rp I made was open ended for age and all I did was set the minimum age to high school, and everyone made a teen, so it turned into a teen drama, which I do think you did well in.

And Super Mocha Cafe, a setting designed for adult heroes in mind, the two first participants made teens. I think that might be saying something.

I just think I should be putting those points out there to consider.

Quote :

As for numbers on supers, I'm hearing from Von that they are decently rare, a very small percentage of the populace. That number is general used for when supers cannot be born super, that they have to be made.

While Wootius wants them to still be a small percentage of the populace, but not small enough to be ignored political wise, I was given the number of roughly 1/3500, and the number of supers is rising, and that would be a mystery of the setting as to why. With these numbers, supers are more likely capable of just being born with abilities as well as those who are made into supers.

I do think this disagreement should be disgust. I want each of you to tell me what you like and what you don't like about the others number settings, what problems and benefits do you think they would cause for the setting?

Eh, I'm still pushing for general supers. The main reason it appeals to me is that in a super setting like the one I imagine for this, I want my character to be an adult simply for the difference in how they're seen by the world. Adults get respect and kids don't, basically. There's a lot of interesting media/government interaction and political intrigue we could get into in an adult setting that just wouldn't work in a teen setting.

As for the issue of how common supers are, I'd like to hear a more detailed description of Wootius' opinion. Specifically, what percentage of supers are actually powerful enough to fight crime? How many, if any, could level whole cities? What percentage can just do mundane things, like lift small objects a few inches off the ground with their mind? If the distribution is to my liking, I'd be fine with that setting.

Note from the GM: I was hoping for us to be able to get to character sandboxing by next weekend, but it seems we're still on part one of my three part sandboxing. I'm going to have to start putting deadlines here if we want to get this done this century through posts.

This only works if people are active. I understand we all have lives of our own and different schedules, but if no one tells me when it is good for them, I can't work around it. If I don't get at least one other person to answer part one questions and wootius to respond to meet my minimal of 3 players, I'm sorry but this is just not going to work. The deadline I'm setting is June 28, 2014. The sooner the better and the quicker we can actually get to playing.

1. Do superheroes kill? Yes, but only when pushed to the point of neccessity unless the character exists soley to kill criminals which should be stated, and even then the first goal shouldnt really be to kill if they are some d to c-list villain (its not really deserved)

Do they only incapacitate? Depends on how far the hero is willing to go, some heroes will beat them into a coma but seeing as they are still alive they are incapacitated it technically isn't killing.

Will they just short of kill someone to incapacitate them? Yes, some enjoy beating the criminals too much.

2. Do supervillains kill? Yes, but I don't think most D-C-list villains would be any good at it, doesn't mean they cant, just that their heroes tend to get away easier.

3. How dark of a setting would you like to play in? How far is too far? I would love it if like, some well loved superhero just got merked in front of everyone, or people were dying everywhere, not because I WANT them to, but because its realistic, if you have a villain who shoots lazers everywhere chances are they are gonna kill a bunch a people with em or a few heroes.

4. Do superheroes wear costumes? Bright colors? Remember, costumes only purpouse is to conceal a persons identity, how far and flashy they choose to go with that is up to them however.

1-2. I think your on par with what the rest of the group wants if I'm not mistaken, Heroes don't kill, but can be pushed to it, and Villains are certainly capable of killing, just not all of them will, or are crazed lunatics.

3. That's a little specific plot point that could happen, I'm more curious on what is too much for you. What would you consider to be going to far?

4. I'm going to disagree on you there. There are plenty of times, and plenty of heroes that do not wear costumes to hide their identity. Iron Man is a very prominent one, he is publicly known in modern comics and yet his armor is brightly colored and flashy, mostly because he loves the attention. Thor has no identity to hide, his bright colors are normal to him, most of the Avengers are this way too, not bothering to wear a mask or costume to hide any sort of identity. Spider-man for a time was publicly known (till a huge retcon, which he made a deal with da devil ((Universally one of the most hated comics)))

Kickass 2, the villains wear costumes only because they are being paid to, not to hide identity as well.

There are whole super hero comics wear the costume is used as a symbol, and not to hide anything.

My main question is do you want heroes in our universe to wear costumes and bright colors, because for some people, its a turn off, and others it is a must.

So far the group is a yes for the costumes and that they don't have to have bright colors, but its not uncommon.

for number 4 i have to dissagree with yoooouuu because ironman is a special case, his armor is ARMOR, he wears it for protection. and I meant to say that its only purpose was to conceal identity most of the time, I mean, what D-list hero has Iron man armor?

Spider, I can list a ton of hero's and a couple of comics where the costume is not meant to hide the identity. I can name also 2 d-list heroes that wear iron man type armor off the top of my head, not a special case. S.T.R.I.P.E., and Barnaby_Brooks_Jr.

Also Tony purposefully colors his armor that way, it is for all tense and purposes his costume.


Also still doesn't answer the two questions I posed