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 How could Max enter Mayview?

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UniqueChimera
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PostSubject: How could Max enter Mayview?   Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:31 pm

As per chapter 3 page 39 Max is possessed by an 'evil' spirit who is aligned with a group that is against Doorman's group. Since Max has only been in town for a couple days and since the Doorman didn't know that the spirit was in Mayview I'm assuming that he was possessed sometime before the events of the story. If this is the case, how was he able to pass through the Mayview barrier when he moved?

I'm assuming Forge got through because he possessed Johnny while Johnny was walking through the barrier (this was a method of travel into/out of Mayview suggested by those dark cat things earlier but was said to be riskier than the Doorman's portals).
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:01 pm

Max isn't possessed. He uses a tool which is possessed by this spirit, so he is not a medium. Doorman wouldn't know that the spirit was in Mayview because the bat which the spirit was possessing was hidden away in a gym storage closet at the school. Max was able to pass through the barrier because he wasn't a spectral yet (supported by the fact that he was flipping out over purple things he clearly hadn't seen before.) So, Max could enter Mayview because he was not yet a spectral. But now he can't, because he is one. Hope I answered your question!
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Westbrook
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:14 am

I dunno though, NinjaKitten. Page 4x115 had Boss Leader saying Max's spirit was "too animal to reason with". Also, there's the whole purplish-light thing that saves him sometimes which doesn't appear to be magnetically related...

My assumption, UniqueChimera (welcome to the forum, by the way!!) is that if Max is possessed, it happened shortly before/after passing through the barrier, and not way back in the past.
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:01 am

That does make sense. The purple light thing, that is. Though, I don't quite remember: Is it possible for a spectral to be a medium and use a tool at the same time? I feel like it's a "one spirit per person thing." Though, Mr.Spender has a spirit, but he avoids yellow tools so maybe you can have more than one?
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Westbrook
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:44 pm

I kind of assumed Mr. Spender is a medium for the shadowy spirit, and his sunglasses are Lucifer's tool. If that's true, then we've got someone with both. =P
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:30 pm

I got the impression that the shadowy thing was "sealed" in Mr.Spender somehow, and not that Mr.Spender was the medium. I'm not even sure the thing is a spirit, to be honest. I got more of a... "pure evil" vibe from it. It would make sense for his sunglasses to be Lucifer's tool, though, since Mr.Spender even wears them at night and to bed. Perhaps he is so scared of other tools because he HAS to be linked with Lucifer for the sealing to work? Take a look at this page here. Mr.Spender's reaction on panels 8 and 9 are a little over the top, (yes I know comic) and he follows this by stating that his mind is in a "delicate balance." Bonds with spirits in tools and as mediums aren't usually that delicate are they? And

WOOP Wait I found evidence for YOUR theory! Take a look at this: Page 124, Chapter 4, panel 8. Mr.Spender claims, and I quote: "I am a medium for an extremely dangerous spirit!" I am assuming that he is not talking about Lucifer here. Sooo... You CAN have both! It just makes the relationship to the tool less stable I guess?
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Westbrook
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:38 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot about that page! Good catch.

I think he can use its powers, as well--for instance, Lucifer allows him to manipulate light, but using the shadows to kill Forge seems out of Lucifer's range of abilities. He's literally got opposite powers, haha.
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:25 am

That does seem to be the case, doesn't it?
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TurnTechBiologist
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:50 pm

I think the shadow thing was actually Lucifer... When he used the shadow to create a void in the shadow of a tree on chapter 4, page 130, he uses a light to create the shadow, indicating that it stems from Lucifer's power.
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:40 am

That does make sense, though perhaps that particular instance was a sort of blend between the two abilities? I don't think it's directly stated that a medium with more than one spirit couldn't mix the two powers if need be. Of course, they would have to be compatible, but it would be an interesting possibility to consider, wouldn't you think?
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Apophyllite
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:50 pm

On this page, Spender says "make the other guy do a little more to earn his keep" right before using shadow manipulation powers for the first time. Before that, all he does is steal light from Forge's fire to use as a weapon.
It seems most likely that Lucifer's powers are limited to light manipulation and that the other spirit gives shadow manipulation. But because it's dark, there aren't any shadows, so Spender uses Lucifer's light powers to create shadows and then uses the other spirit's powers to do stuff with the shadows...
When the tentacly spirit escapes, it looks like a shadow on the ground and is driven back by the light from the Ghost Train. So that spirit seems very much shadow themed.
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:34 am

That is very true. So, I think that it's safe to come to the conclusion that Mr.Spender has and can use two different Spirits, and since he is only seen with one tool-like item, it is safe to assume that he is a medium as well as a tool user.
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Westbrook
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:11 pm

Yep, that's the assumption I've been making as well.
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:17 pm

I wonder if/when the kids are going to find out about it.
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Westbrook
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:23 am

The students probably know as little about Lucifer as possible. Isabel surely knows about Spender's ability to manipulate light. She certainly didn't know about the shadow. So they'll likely only find out if it gets revealed by accident, because Spender's sure not going to burden them with it.
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:25 am

Haha. "I'm fishing for information. Open that can I need those worms." Oh, Max.

But yeah, Mr Spender will never tell them if he can help it. The thing is, they always find out. It's how stories tend to go. Sure, it might be a few story arcs from now, but I'm pretty sure secrets will be revealed ... All in due time. Smile
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TurnTechBiologist
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:53 pm

unless the kids see him use it more, and start burying him in questions until he spills the beans
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:19 pm

True. He'll probably try to avoid using it more, but what with him being associated with *gasp* a protagonist! he'll probably feel like he has to use it again at some point. That way, Max gets both beans and worms.
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TurnTechBiologist
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:20 pm

all them hweerms
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:24 pm

'n them beenz. Maybe he can start a werm/been farm. Unless the beenz are pre-cooked.
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Floating Eyeball
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Thu May 05, 2016 4:42 pm

This comes way too late (I've been off this forum for way too long, and I was really hoping to stay active!), but it's totally possible for Max to have been possessed before becoming a spectral, which would let him pass through the barrier. I'm fairly certain Zack mentioned how this would work before on Twitter, but even if I can't find that, we definitely have proof of it now: Johnny was possessed by Forge and was able to pass through the barrier, because he was only a tool at that point. After a bit of time being possessed, he starts to become a spectral, as we see with him seeing shades. (It can't have been that his jacket was possessed because he isn't wearing it during hitball) The same thing could have happened to Max, with BERG possessing Max before he went to Mayview to get inside.
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Thu May 05, 2016 5:42 pm

(I'm assuming that BERG is the spirit that had a chat with Doorman? I usually refer to them as Riddle.)
But yeah, that could be the case. When Max was heading to his room, we can hear (see) a hissing sound, which I assume is Hissing Pete. That means that Max was starting to become a spectral immediately after he moved in to his new house. Now, when we look at Johnny, he sees the shade the day after he's possessed, right? So, since he was possessed sometime during the night, and the Hitball game seems to have taken place towards the afternoon, I'd estimate (extremely roughly, mind you: lots of assumptions here) that it takes around 12 hours to become spectrals. The process for Johnny might be a little faster, though, since he goes to a spectral buffet for school and hanging around a lot of spirits for an extended period of time sometimes turns people into spectrals, as Spender said on some page, but it seems to take less than 24 hours. Therefore, Max got possessed less than 24 hours before he passed the barrier and entered Mayview, probably during the trip there. (Depending on how far away his old home is.)

Where was I going with this? Anyways, yeah, I think Max was probably possessed soon before he crossed the barrier into Mayview.

Also, welcome back! Nice to meet you. Hope you can hang around this time!
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Floating Eyeball
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Thu May 12, 2016 4:54 pm

(Yeah, I'm using an old name that got started in the comments. Benign Evil Riddle God or something along those lines)

I wonder if Mayview is more filled with spirits, making people become spectrals faster? It seems strange that there's only a training facility and the Activity Club, then, but maybe the environment's good for starting up spectrals. I think that estimate is great for guessing about Max's possession!

Thank you! It's great to meet you, too!
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Fri May 13, 2016 2:37 am

(That's a pretty cool name. I still prefer Riddle, though.)

It's the tutorial level! Though, there seems to be too much intrigue to just be the tutorial. Maybe it's one of those things where you go through the tutorial as you go through the game?

I'm glad my estimation isn't completely ridiculous, though it's still very rough and approximate and whatnot. I wonder if being a medium turns people into spectrals faster than people with tools. They'd have more intimate contact with the spirit, after all. If no spirit can come in and out of Mayview, that means that there can be no immigration or emigration of spirits, so if more spirits are somehow created faster than spirits die or disappear or whatever, then the number of spirits in Mayview would increase, so then the barrier may make it so that Mayview has more spirits than normal?

Also it would be strange for there only to be a couple of spectral organizations. Maybe there are more that we don't know of?
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Connorses
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PostSubject: Re: How could Max enter Mayview?   Mon May 16, 2016 4:22 pm

FWIW, we have a page that depicts Johnny getting possessed by Forge and becoming a medium just before he crosses the Barrier. Some people said it worked because Johnny was already partways across, but the way it reads it could have just as easily happened before Johnny touched the Barrier. Point is, if you have a spirit with you but you're not a spectral yet you can still cross over.

I'm fairly certain Johnny is possessed, as opposed to Forge entering the coat Johnny was wearing to become a tool. We saw in the Hitball section that Forge was there and was getting worked up because Johnny's emotions were running high; Johnny wasn't wearing that same coat (and probably not the shirt either because he's dressed up for PE but why would forge bother possessing a shirt that would be lame ok I'm done here bye) so the coat can't be a tool, Forge definitely is inside Johnny himself.
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