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 Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits

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Lazybones
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PostSubject: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:15 pm

So since I read the first half of Paranatural on a tablet I missed a bunch of the alt text. Guess I'll hafta go back and re-read it >:3

Anyway, while I'm re-reading I wanna keep track of all the moments that looked pointless at the time but came into play later (ie, foreshadowing, Chekhov's Guns, etc). I can remember coming across some on my first read through, but I figured collecting them here could help out new readers.

If anyone else can think of any, post! I want to nod to you wisely/smugly in solidarity Cool
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Passing Through
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:57 pm

That time Mr. Garcia threw a pizza out the window.

It's a neat little thing all on its own, but I'm still waiting for someone to reference it again.
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Lazybones
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:09 pm

Passing Through wrote:
That time Mr. Garcia threw a pizza out the window.

It's a neat little thing all on its own, but I'm still waiting for someone to reference it again.

lol, wonder if a pizza can be a tool.

Also: how did I not notice the parallels between page 17 and page 69 before now??
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Lazybones
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:13 pm

djvnsljbnj Johnny doesn't feel any pain after Max and scooter landed on him cause there's a freaking Doctopi on his face

Also: spotting soooo many purple see-through kids on my second read.
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Cosmophant
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:29 am

Yup, yup, and yup.

I love the consistency of the foreshadowing Zack uses!
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Lazybones
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:58 pm

Early manifestations of magnet powers, whaaaat.
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Baron Von Aardvark
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:47 pm

Oooh yeah, I noticed that one the first time I re-read it! It's one of my favorite bits of foreshadowing so far. Really, really clever.
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Cosmophant
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:38 pm

Yeah! I really liked that! Especially since you're not sure what happened at first.
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Apophyllite
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:01 pm

Chapter 3 page 2, Max's dad theorizes about death cultists...
Chapter 4 page 148 reveals a couple of shady characters that look pretty much exactly like in dad's theory vision.
Chapter 5 page 2, big death cultist is actually the president? (they make the same finger tenting gesture and seem to have a similar body shape...) (also I don't know much about US schools but isn't the principal usually the hightest post in a school? Why is there a president? is it the president?)
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:36 pm

I think that there are presidents of school boards, but I don't know much about it even though I go to one of them US schools. But, why would there be a president in just one high school? I mean, I'm pretty sure the school board has domain over all the schools, so they wouldn't just sit around at one school. Mysterious.... I wonder what's going on here? So many conspiracies!
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Apophyllite
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:01 pm

There's probably at least a second school in Mayview... So maybe he's president of 2 schools :0
And he was just visiting...

And if he's a spectral, like I was theorizing, he's probably stuck in the barrier... Unless the "bad guys" (maybe probably) have their own way of getting in and out...
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:22 pm

Hmm... interesting theory. But, those shadow-ninja-things that were talking to forge didn't seem to act like there was another way in or out, unless they don't count as "bad guys" in this situation. And if they DID have a way, what would it be? Would they use a spectral or a tool? Is it possible for someone to have teleportation powers?

And since we're on the topic, who set up the barrier around Mayview? How did they do it? I'm pretty sure there isn't magic, so was it a spectral's power?

I'm just throwing a bunch of questions around because I have zero answers to anything and this is the only way I can contribute.
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Apophyllite
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:21 pm

Seeing as how the death cultist type dudes seemed to be in cahoots with the pixelhound spirits and those were enemies to Forge, and Forge is allied with Doorman and Nin(the shadow ninja things (who seem to be one spirit that can multiply itself)), I'm thinking the deathcultists and Nin are likely different factions in this whole situation thing. So they're unlikely to know eachother's methods...

The barrier is said to be unpassable to spectrals and spirits, but so far we've seen 2 different spirits that have abilities that can bypass it. It's not unthinkable that there could be more spirits that have abilities hat could allow them to get from one side to the other, be it teleportation or some other way. I'm not sure about spectrals being able to have powers of their own, without borrowing from a spirit. Though I have been thinking about this possability because it's mentioned ghosts can have spectral energy "abilities". (Also seen here, being used by Lefty.) We've seen spectrals make some really elaborate constructs out of spectral energy, but not sure if those count as abilities...

On this page, Spender says it was created by a colleague of him (probably a consortium agent) with a spirit's power. I think that's all we know about it's origin at the moment, though Spender could be lying or wrong...
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:10 pm

That's what I meant with the spectral thing. I meant that they were borrowing a spirit's powers for it. I guess I just wasn't clear enough about that!

I don't think Spender would lie about the origin of the barrier, unless nobody knows where it came from, in which case Spender would claim that he knows about its origin in order to appear knowledgeable. (Certainly seems like something he would do, to be honest.) If the barrier around Mayview has been up for a very long time, then perhaps Riddlesand Wordgames would know something about the origins... After all, it seems that Riddle there knows some people er... spirits who already live(...?) in Mayview, and they seem to know Riddle, so it seems pretty likely to me that Riddle would have existed in Mayview before at some point in time. As Riddle was called a God (albiet a broken/mad one) then it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to guess that Riddle knows a lot and is very old...right?
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PretenseAndPoison
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:40 am

On my second re-read of the archives I was pleased to experience that momentary euphoria of realizing that Max had been being drawn towards the bat holding Scrapdragon many pages before he was actually stuffed into that same gym supply closet by Isabel. (Chapter 1, page 39)

Also, we see clues towards the color of both Max and Johnnys' spectral energies before either of them become associated with a spirit or a tool in the first chapter. Black gloom effects around Max during particular panels, and pulsing red around Johnny (page 36, chapter 1 contains both for quick reference).

Those two bits of foreshadowing are the ones that stand out to me in recent memory, without sitting here and considering it for a long time.
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:23 pm

Ah, yes! I noticed the gym storage thing too, but I didn't spot the bit about the effects being their spectral energy colors. Nice catch!

I would like to say that I spotted some other cool bit of foreshadowing, but if I did I would be lying, as I unfortunately do not recall anything like that at the moment.

I'm sure that many things going on in the recent pages are sneaky bits of foreshadowing, but we'll likely only realize it after the reveal has occurred. Or at least, I will. Hopefully.
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PretenseAndPoison
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:17 am

After typing that out I went and read through the archives again to see if I could spot any other color associations for the characters the story doesn't really focus on.

It'll probably take me a while to memorize and/or compile notes about it, but todays' update definitely has me feeling Suzy has a natural purple going on.

Her expressions in that page, though- she's my new spirit animal.
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Apophyllite
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:50 pm

PretenseAndPoison wrote:
Also, we see clues towards the color of both Max and Johnnys' spectral energies before either of them become associated with a spirit or a tool in the first chapter. Black gloom effects around Max during particular panels, and pulsing red around Johnny (page 36, chapter 1 contains both for quick reference).

Forge's spectral energy is grey, so Johnny's is most likely going to be grey aswell. The colour effects around characters are to set a mood and Johnny being a dynamic "fiery" sort will usually have warm and intense colours like red/orange/yellow. Plus it matches his hair >_>
Though I guess the fire powers are thematically consistent there...
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PretenseAndPoison
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:38 pm

Apophyllite wrote:
PretenseAndPoison wrote:
Also, we see clues towards the color of both Max and Johnnys' spectral energies before either of them become associated with a spirit or a tool in the first chapter. Black gloom effects around Max during particular panels, and pulsing red around Johnny (page 36, chapter 1 contains both for quick reference).

Forge's spectral energy is grey, so Johnny's is most likely going to be grey aswell. The colour effects around characters are to set a mood and Johnny being a dynamic "fiery" sort will usually have warm and intense colours like red/orange/yellow. Plus it matches his hair >_>
Though I guess the fire powers are thematically consistent there...

And that there is something I had forgotten about!

Well. Forge is grey? My foot tastes especially large today!
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Apophyllite
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:03 pm

It's easy to forget, what with the fire powers and all. I think we're all kinda subconsciously programmed to link fire with red.
Though grey also makes thematic sense with grey being smoky and also metal...
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:26 pm

I agree with Apophyllite: since Johnny has red hair and is so headstrong and "fire-y" and all (haha) we'd associate the color red with him more easily than grey. Also his personality leads to a lot of situations where a strong, bright color (such as red) would go best as the background or to set a mood for the panel.

But what am I saying, I was totally going along with what you were saying before. Who am I to talk as if I knew this all along? X(
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PretenseAndPoison
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:05 am

Grey is an awesome color anyways, and there are plenty of archetypical parallels that can be drawn of the relationship between the two color associations. As was mentioned earlier, the Spectral/Spirit pairs we've seen have leaned towards the 'complimentary opposites' presentation. So Johnny, with his active, aggressive, and fiery personality contrasted by his caring nature (his close-knit friendships, remorse directed towards Max during the Hitball arc) seems a good fit for Forge as he was presented to us during the train battle- a coolheaded spirit with bubbling passive anger and regret about his past, seeking redemption via what he believes to be a just cause. Where Johnny applies violence without thought, Forge was shown to have willfully inhibited himself from violence until the situation deemed it strategically beneficial- he didn't scratch the train until Spender showed up, and he intended it only as a diversionary action. Even moreso, his possessing Johnny was improvisation which he deemed wrong, but necessary.

I would rate their parallels as Johnny= Outgoing, passionate, and unrestrained, with potential for positive reflection and growth, and Forge= Logical, bearing conviction, wisdom, and experience to offset his volatile nature.


What has me thinking about this is actually the very same panel you linked to, where we see Forges' energy color seeping off of him like steam from a quenched rod- much of Forges' visuals so far have shown his... oh my, the word 'temper' fits so perfectly here.

With Forge being an ancient spirit of fire and blacksmithing (paraphrasing his Cast Card), we could interpret him as the anvil, and Johnny as the hot iron. That's pretty cool to think about~

I feel that some of this may be redundant, but I am also rather tired.

[Edit: afterthoughts] I had forgotten to type this as I was thinking it (and am forgetting what I was thinking as I'm typing now), but... Nope, it's gone. Just sat here in edit mode for three minutes trying to recall. Pretty sure it wasn't the whole hot iron thing, but it could have been. And now I'm forgetting what I was going to type instead, because I'm typing this.

While I'm sitting here in "Futile Short-Term Memory Mode" though, I /am/ recalling my earlier thoughts on the relation between Mayviews' Barrier and Spectral Energy though, which I was thinking about because of things I read in these forums- it makes sense that the barrier could be the long-term energy construct of an especially powerful spirit/spectral, as it only affects the paranormal. Spectral energy is canonically unable to interact with things that aren't possessed of spectral energy in some form, so it makes a lot of sense for the barrier to be spectral energy itself. The recent conversation about energy constructs in the teachers lounge we got to see made a point of bringing this to our attention- an energy construct unattached to the body of the being created it is difficult, considered to be a sign of mastery among practitioners, while it's easier if the energy is stretched very thin. A suitably rigid, ultra-thin dome of spectral energy is definitely a feasible feat for the purpose of containment that wouldn't draw attention from the world of the mundane.
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NinjaKitten
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:39 pm

I like your assessment of the "complementary opposites" theme in relation to Johnny and Forge. I think it fits very well into what we already know about the two.

About the barrier, that is a very valid point. When Johnny and co. go through it, it doesn't seem to be especially thick, and like you said, spectral energy doesn't affect "normal" people/objects, so I think that your theory about the barrier is extremely plausible. Good thinking, there! *thumbs up*
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PretenseAndPoison
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:15 am

I'm just really fond of analyzing, and then rambling aimlessly to whoever will listen. I suppose that makes a Forum the perfect place for me!

Though, my shift manager still certainly gets an earful whenever we work together.

Thinking on it over the course of the day, Forge seems to have an impetuous, almost childlike quality to him despite his age. That only serves to further endear him to me
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Apophyllite
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PostSubject: Re: Chekhov's Foreshadowy Bits   Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:39 pm

PretenseAndPoison wrote:

While I'm sitting here in "Futile Short-Term Memory Mode" though, I /am/ recalling my earlier thoughts on the relation between Mayviews' Barrier and Spectral Energy though, which I was thinking about because of things I read in these forums- it makes sense that the barrier could be the long-term energy construct of an especially powerful spirit/spectral, as it only affects the paranormal. Spectral energy is canonically unable to interact with things that aren't possessed of spectral energy in some form, so it makes a lot of sense for the barrier to be spectral energy itself. The recent conversation about energy constructs in the teachers lounge we got to see made a point of bringing this to our attention- an energy construct unattached to the body of the being created it is difficult, considered to be a sign of mastery among practitioners, while it's easier if the energy is stretched very thin. A suitably rigid, ultra-thin dome of spectral energy is definitely a feasible feat for the purpose of containment that wouldn't draw attention from the world of the mundane.

The barrier was said to be created with a spirit's power. Even if Spender is mistaken or lying, spectral energy itself would probably not be enough to hold all spirits for as long as it has since they eat spectral energy. Making a prison out of food would probably not be a very good idea... The string to hold the doctopus was only a short term solution and it didn't seem to last very long. Even with an immense amount of power, I don't think a barrier like that would last very long if it was made out of spectral energy.
While we haven't really had anything in the comic explaining how the abilities of spirits work, I don't think the things they sometimes can produce (like Muse's ink) are still spectral energy. Spectral energy was defined there as "immaterial matter in it's loosest form" so maybe when spirits eat spectral energy, they can use it to create less loose immaterial matter, which can no longer be consumed by other spirits. Thus being able to form barriers than can't be eaten. Makes me wonder what other kinds of "immaterial matter" there are in the spirit world and if they're all formed by spirits. Dr Zarei seemed to use some.
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